That thread over at Butterflies and Wheels ran for 284 comments before Ophelia eventually decided to encourage the remaining participants to talk offline. It's a great debate. While there's always more to say, this discussion is a worth a look to see those involved hashing out the issues. Not, of course, that it's conclusive.
H/T "Paul W" - the email about it was appreciated, mate. Which is not the same as saying that you've persuaded me. ;)