tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24761391.post7825173541593464299..comments2023-10-26T22:06:11.166+11:00Comments on Metamagician3000: Oh no, those dogmatic atheistsRussell Blackfordhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12431324430596809958noreply@blogger.comBlogger89125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24761391.post-33025078496746419282010-06-30T21:02:57.296+10:002010-06-30T21:02:57.296+10:00Sorry, Rob - you're now 89 after a spray of Tr...Sorry, Rob - you're now 89 after a spray of Troll-Begone was supplied.Russell Blackfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12431324430596809958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24761391.post-40435439412099427222010-06-30T17:56:33.887+10:002010-06-30T17:56:33.887+10:00number 90 - woo hoo -
I think maybe something got...number 90 - woo hoo -<br /><br />I think maybe something got missed. No bother... <br /><br />When presented with opportunities I would be the last to accept them, but I would quietly and with reservation.<br /><br />2 years ago I was presented with the runner up medal in the Pride of Australia Awards for my work in developing new writers in Australia. To many who received awards it was an opportunity to state their case before the media present. I respectfully accepted the award, not sure I even deserved such recognition and quite reluctant to speak about what I do. Though the recognition was a proud moment, it was not why I do what I do. The award does hang in my office, but it is well hidden by a book case. Sometimes I see it wonder.<br /><br />I am the same way when it comes to actually expressing why I believe in the Christian faith. Yes it is real and present in me, but I also consider myself quite fortunate in the way I moved from Atheism to Christianity. Was I deserving - I still wonder.<br /><br />When confronted with explicit questions about the nature of God or even Christianity my resistance is based on the fact it is not my place to speak for a world of people. I can speak for myself and I do so in very loose terms. My faith allows me to do certain things, be a part of certain people's lives and that is not something to be blathered about to prove any kind of argument. To be is some of the positions I am in is a privileged, not a given and not something to be abused in order to make someone's day.<br /><br />I will take abuse and name calling any day, that is part and parcel of my life. I wish things could be easier but they aren't and I can live with that.<br /><br />Some want to believe science is the answer to the world's problems and even some Atheists believe science is the mouth piece of their beliefs; if this were true many things that actually confront us today would have been solved in the 70s and 80s. I am honest enough to think religion does not hold the answer either but it can help.<br /><br />As I have said. I play my part and I can screw things up just a badly as the next guy. But, and this is the major one for me. Winning is only ever suitable for a few lucky ones - the rest of us have to make do with what is left.Robert N Stephensonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24761391.post-22035736249595264812010-06-30T17:00:00.704+10:002010-06-30T17:00:00.704+10:00Robert, as I have already noted, you have given me...Robert, as I have already noted, you have given me exactly what I was looking for: an admission that your ideas are indefensible because they aren't based on reason, and that - similarly - you reject the possibility that reason could turn you from your faith.<br /><br />It's all I ask from any religious person. The problem is that so very few are as honest as you about their impermeable, closed-minded dogmatism and insist there is a rational defence of religion when it's clear no such thing exists.<br /><br />However, it worries me that you are so blind to the impact your co-religionists have on the world - oppressing and leading to the deaths and suffering of millions and denying the rights of so many more - solely because of the same intractable, irrational faith that renders your beliefs immune to reason.<br /><br />And it's impossible to challenge those dangerous beliefs without also applying to the same logic to yours. You might not be swayed, but it's my sincere hope that others can be - even if it's only to turn them into you.Wowbaggernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24761391.post-35223878288555824932010-06-30T16:33:00.565+10:002010-06-30T16:33:00.565+10:00In my close for the day: (Have a story to finish)
...In my close for the day: (Have a story to finish)<br /><br /><br />I cannot claim to know the truth about anything, nor can I wrongly lead anyone based on my lack on knowledge. I do what I can when the time comes, it may not be perfect and it may not be even be timely but it truly what I can offer. I require no gratitude, no prize or even recognition for my life in general. I support what I can and pray for what I am ill equipped to help with. If I can manage though each day causing harm to as few people as possible, then perhaps I can call that a good day.Robert N Stephensonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24761391.post-50522259320599070252010-06-30T16:16:44.360+10:002010-06-30T16:16:44.360+10:00Interesting... well to me anyway.
To others it mi...Interesting... well to me anyway.<br /><br />To others it might be just a bit of a bore between people with less than an idea. What do I make of it - well nothing really, I was mainly boosting numbers. Stating I hold probably a passive aggressive position in some regard to faith and religion, and generally could be arsed arguing something not worth the effort.<br /><br />I had discussion a couple of hours ago with a church minister and how he has been invited to head the gay rights campaign. We touched on atheism briefly - and I think it might have been back at the start - too lazy to check the times.<br /><br />His question was 'Why bother' there are more important issues to deal with at the moment. He was right of course - there is some productive activism to get involved in.<br /><br />So, why would I even consider offering anything to wowbagger? Cowardice? Quite doubtful, but lets not go there. No argument to make? Not at all, but I choose the benefits of such exchanges, you don't and I don't even think it would be beneficial to other readers either.<br /><br />I say this about God, you say that. I explain the issues of faith, you throw a few well trained cliches in. I again ask why we are bothering. Done,. argument over, no ground gained or lost. Just me wasting mental power on a non issue for me.<br /><br />Yep it is easy to ramble along like this, because I am actually writing other texts and these rambles just help me think. Thinking aloud it use to be. Do I actually even care what others think of me? Well Russell might even know some of my history on that score.<br /><br />In short. 'I don't' You can abuse me all the way to the sun explodes and it won't bother me. Annoy me, yes, but get to me - rarely. I do shoot first sometimes...<br /><br />You know I might even be a self righteous fool, but that is who I am today. Tomorrow, well, who knows. I haven't got there yet<br /><br />Oh, just like others, I can be quite arrogant - my wife tells me oftenRobert N Stephensonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24761391.post-45584137049810043752010-06-30T15:28:12.690+10:002010-06-30T15:28:12.690+10:00Robert N Stephenson wrote: 'You see, when you ...Robert N Stephenson wrote: '<i>You see, when you didn't know what humility was, I gave up on you. It went down hill after what you delivered as an explanation.</i>'<br /><br />At least I gave one. You were too cowardly to even do that in case you were shown to be wrong. That's not humility - that's fear and lack of character.<br /><br />'<i>Please dwell and search and dwell some more.</i>'<br /><br />More assumptions and <i>ad hominem</i> attacks. I've presented evidence that I've 'dwelled' on the topic and can elucidate the results of such contemplation; you've dodged, waffled and presented nothing but hot air.<br /><br />'<i>Sorry to disappoint you on that score.</i>'<br /><br />Maybe you should try actually reading the whole way through my posts. I'm <i>glad</i> you're so ineffectual, not disappointed.<br /><br />'<i>Are you a unicorn by the way? Do you need to be told you have a horn on your head?</i>'<br /><br />Your attempts at humour are worse than your lame 'arguments'.<br /><br />'<i>Now, when you can actually answer the question of humility to yourself, call again.</i>'<br /><br />You first. Agaain, at least <i>I</i> had the character to have a go. You can't even muster the gumption to do that.<br /><br />'<i>At the moment I am just enjoying being an arse; if you don't mind of course </i>'<br /><br />Oh, I don't mind - but you're yet to demonstrate you even have a choice in the matter, that could could manage <i>not</i> being an arse.Wowbaggernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24761391.post-75663267350489249592010-06-30T15:20:04.117+10:002010-06-30T15:20:04.117+10:0085 comments - maybe it could be easily said the su...85 comments - maybe it could be easily said the subject was at least dogmatic...<br /><br />cool... I like seeing number going up. Though probably 40 comments are mine it does mean 40 are others. That's good. True the discussion is all wavery and loopy but at least the blog post might be being read a little wider...Robert N Stephensonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24761391.post-42541128457420088302010-06-30T15:11:02.936+10:002010-06-30T15:11:02.936+10:00Funny man, funny indeed. You see, when you didn...Funny man, funny indeed. You see, when you didn't know what humility was, I gave up on you. It went down hill after what you delivered as an explanation.<br /><br />Please dwell and search and dwell some more. Answers are things you find; it seems you need to be told. Sorry to disappoint you on that score. Are you a unicorn by the way? Do you need to be told you have a horn on your head?<br /><br />Now, when you can actually answer the question of humility to yourself, call again. At the moment I am just enjoying being an arse; if you don't mind of courseRobert N Stephensonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24761391.post-53636752456097234792010-06-30T15:01:51.908+10:002010-06-30T15:01:51.908+10:00Robert N Stephenson wrote: 'a 3/4 hole now. at...Robert N Stephenson wrote: '<i>a 3/4 hole now. at least I am not anonymous. Honesty wise that means a little</i>'<br /><br />Wrong again; that's called an <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem" rel="nofollow"><i>ad hominem</i></a>.<br /><br />If you think the honesty of using your real name overcomes the dishonesty of your arguments - sorry, <i>lack of</i> arguments - then you shouldn't be communicating using the internet.<br /><br />Real honesty is demonstrated by a willingness to engage in good-faith arguments, not a lack of anonymity.Wowbaggernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24761391.post-47629777405898843142010-06-30T14:39:43.840+10:002010-06-30T14:39:43.840+10:00a 3/4 hole now. at least I am not anonymous. Hones...a 3/4 hole now. at least I am not anonymous. Honesty wise that means a littleRobert N Stephensonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24761391.post-28468260082549162412010-06-30T14:37:28.713+10:002010-06-30T14:37:28.713+10:00Just using the same discussion methods of the Athe...Just using the same discussion methods of the Atheist Havok - then only using them here. I talk with a group of atheist friends at least one a week, good and enjoyable times.<br /><br />People of course have to take their own journeys through life, some become religious for a multitude of reasons, some become agnostic, again for a multitude of reasons and likewise Atheists.<br /><br />Now, if I knew that anything I said would be of benefit to someone, perhaps I would take more care - then in some cases I do. I had a good conversation here with Zachary yesterday. I think we agreed with stood on two sides and once we understood it wasn't about proving anything the discussion was good.<br /><br />I can be dogmatic for sure, and dogmatic on all sorts of issues in life. I have no time for the media, big business or fundamentalist religions of any kind.<br /><br />Where I am general on atheists here, I am not so in person. Why? Well my atheist friend clearly know the difference between religions, the many differences in understanding of Christians - they have learned which ones are good to talk to and which ones just make jibber jabber noises.<br /><br />On this site, the general consensus is that all religions are the same. I know they aren't, but what does that matter. I might as well say all atheists are the same. That way we are on even footing I guess.<br /><br />I really try not to be disrespectful, but naturally we all slip up here and say things that, in hindsight, might best not have been said at all. There is no edit button here, you just have to hope you hit it right first time.<br /><br />The important thing to note with me is that I do not have to justify myself or my beliefs to anyone. That is what freedom means.<br /><br />To me there is much to learn about people on the site - not much to learn on much else because well, I spent 20 years expounding the logic and reason of atheism, there isn't too much different now that back then - not fundmentally anywayRobert N Stephensonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24761391.post-23387449933521877652010-06-30T14:35:52.994+10:002010-06-30T14:35:52.994+10:00Robert N Stephenson wrote:
'Who still have p...Robert N Stephenson wrote: <br /><br />'<i>Who still have proven nothing to me, in any personal way.</i>'<br /><br />But you've already admitted you wouldn't change your mind no matter what - that you're the very definition of dogmatic. So this statement says everything about you and nothing about me or my arguments.<br /><br />'<i>I am glad I could help you with that.</i>'<br /><br />Oh, not as glad as I am. Every time a Christian posts such a logic-free and evasive 'defence' (using the term in the loosest possible way) of their religious beliefs I'm reminded of exactly why atheism is the honest, rational position to hold.<br /><br />And it's entirely possible that, in doing so, you've helped some fence-sitters over to the godless side.Wowbaggernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24761391.post-16735398868762950282010-06-30T14:18:58.902+10:002010-06-30T14:18:58.902+10:00Robert, you seem quite keen on tarring all atheist...Robert, you seem quite keen on tarring all atheists with being dogmatic, and yet you insist on chastising those who you claim don't understand Christianity.<br /><br />Why do you hold such different positions when it comes to those of (something you think is like your) faith and those without?Havokhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05770427187548083625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24761391.post-32839519906334834452010-06-30T14:12:59.833+10:002010-06-30T14:12:59.833+10:00Wowbagger - dogmatic atheists -
yep, I read it ri...Wowbagger - dogmatic atheists -<br /><br />yep, I read it right the first time<br /><br />anything else you like me to ignore you on? You create no reason for me to even accept you exist. Wowbagger would be quite an unfortunate name to have, if it were real - I have no reason to believe you actually are anything more than a troll. Now I also know Russell would be quick to stop that kind of behaviour, so logically and within reason, I would then think, maybe you aren't a troll.<br /><br />The only things I confirm is that I believe in God and that I am a Christian. I have never hid from that - not ever coming here 6 weeks ago (how time flies)<br /><br />So, what is your problem with me being a Christian? Oh, it is only you don't believe. Well, sorry to say there are a lot of people who don't believe and there are even more who do.<br /><br />Who still have proven nothing to me, in any personal way. Only to suggest you fit the title of the blog neatly.<br /><br />So, if I were impolite I might say you have no humility and are quite possibly also stupid. But that would be rude and something I would actually expect from you. Oh, you did suggest this - sorry, I might have been confusing you with some other pointless person in my life.<br /><br />When you work out what faith means maybe come back to me. We could talk, share a joke... even laugh about 'remember the day'<br /><br />As I said, I don't owe you anything and the only person being flummoxed here is you. I am glad I could help you with that.<br /><br />Good luck with your Atheism by the way - hope it works out.Robert N Stephensonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24761391.post-50697972942475497012010-06-30T13:53:40.788+10:002010-06-30T13:53:40.788+10:00'You have given no compelling reason or eviden...'<i>You have given no compelling reason or evidence that God does not exist in some form. I believe this may put us on equal footing.</i>'<br /><br />Do you believe that unicorns exist? If not, why not? What compelling reason or evidence is there to say that don't exist?<br /><br />How about fairies? Goblins? Minotaurs? Alien abductions? Yetis? The Boogleman? There's no evidence they <i>don't</i> exist - do you believe in them, too?<br /><br />Another example: I say you owe me a million dollars. Should I have to prove you that do or should you have to prove you don't?<br /><br />Or, in other words, <b>you are making the positive claim that god exists; the onus is upon you to demonstrate that.</b><br /><br />The footing could not be more unequal.<br /><br />'<i>My position in belief wouldn't change, in fact I would wonder why Russell would actually ask a religious question of me - we are world apart here.</i>'<br /><br />Thank you for finally admitting the truth - that your aherence to your religion is not based on reason and that there is nothing that could change your mind about what you believe. There's a word for that - <i>dogmatic</i>.<br /><br />Now, look up to the top of the page to remind yourself what the title of this post is.Wowbaggernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24761391.post-79735412292440412622010-06-30T13:26:45.514+10:002010-06-30T13:26:45.514+10:00wowbagger - you are an interesting fish. I know I ...wowbagger - you are an interesting fish. I know I placed the shovel in good hands.<br /><br />The Hindu, or Islamist, or even Bhudist and I would discuss faith issues very nicely, and of course have, and always in a good humoured way.<br /><br />I simply don't often afford this to Atheists - my choice.<br /><br />You have given no compelling reason or evidence that God does not exist in some form. I believe this may put us on equal footing.<br /><br />Lets me put it this way. I have a black car, you have a white car. I don't particularly like white care and you have shown you don't care much for black. So, in all reason, why would we even bother to talk about them. I might adhere to some, or well most, Atheist principles and even apply them quite liberally to my faith - and my Atheist friends (which is actually most of my friends) accept this position I have.<br /><br />I am only avoiding you wowbagger. If Russell asked me a specific question I might actually answer it the best I can, and I know Russell is a staunch Atheist. My position in belief wouldn't change, in fact I would wonder why Russell would actually ask a religious question of me - we are world apart here.<br /><br />What you don't understand, and probably never will, is that I don't owe you anything wowbagger, so why do you think I do? Call it evasive all you like... I just happen to know the value of what I say and when it is beneficial to say it. I just don't think saying it to you is beneficial - that's allRobert N Stephensonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24761391.post-32035322651812843252010-06-30T13:11:45.310+10:002010-06-30T13:11:45.310+10:00Robert N Stephenson wrote: 'wowbagger - are yo...Robert N Stephenson wrote: '<i>wowbagger - are you an Atheist?</i>'<br /><br />Yes, I'm an atheist. But what would differ if I wasn't? What if I was a Hindu - how would you answer the same questions I've asked you in this thread and others if that were the case? If you would answer them differently, why would that be?<br /><br />'<i>You have a pre-set determination of religion in general.</i>'<br /><br />Religion should be subject to investigation, just like any other concept. That you are afraid of what this investigation will demonstrate about you and your faith is what's keeping you from being open and honest about it.<br /><br />Why so deceptive? What have you to hide?<br /><br />'<i>A position that cannot actually be questioned at all.</i>'<br /><br />On the contrary, I'm questioning my position all the time - <b>why else do you think I'm here asking you questions?</b> <br /><br />'<i>You are by definition locked into a mindset.</i>'<br /><br />If by 'locked into a mindset' you mean 'I require a combination of evidence and compelling argument rather than dogma and tradition in order to hold a position', then yes - a mindset of analysis, critical thought and intellectual honesty; something all rational people would consider a sensible position.<br /><br />And as I've noted before, if you can provide me with evidence/compelling argument for the existence of a god - yours or anyone else's - <b>then I'll change my mind</b>.<br /><br />Can you make that claim? How would you know if you were wrong? What would you do if that happened?<br /><br />'<i>Yes, you misrepresent Christians greatly</i>'<br /><br />And as soon as you provide me with an accurate representation of Christians then I'll stop. But you are avoiding that for reasons I've already noted.<br /><br />'<i>but you will continue to do so regardless of what I say.</i>'<br /><br />Ah, a self-fulfilling prophecy. Are you working your way through some kind of evasiveness checklist?<br /><br />'<i>But, I don't actually have to create a position for the Atheist - I can question and doubt and state misrepresentation. But it is up to them do do what they like.</i>'<br /><br />True, you don't have to do that - but you <i>do</i> have to live with the fact that reveals you're intellectually dishonest and arguing in bad faith.<br /><br />No skin off my nose, as they say.<br /><br /><i>As I am quite secure in what I believe, and I am happy that belief covers a broader spectrum that even the widest thinking artheist I have encounter thus far. I am happy.</i><br /><br />Yes, be happy with your ever-shifting goalposts. Never mind that your continued avoidance illustrates just how weak your position must be.Wowbaggernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24761391.post-56723904414493044482010-06-30T12:46:33.778+10:002010-06-30T12:46:33.778+10:00wowbagger - are you an Atheist? I think you are. Y...wowbagger - are you an Atheist? I think you are. You have a pre-set determination of religion in general. A position that cannot actually be questioned at all. You are by definition locked into a mindset.<br /><br />Explain why, when I only do things for my own benefit, would I even bother discussing this with you. It is simply no logical, even irrational to think anything would come from it.<br /><br />Yes, you misrepresent Christians greatly - but you will continue to do so regardless of what I say. Now, this is a free world, so from memory I can state whatever I like, with in reason and within the rules of Russell's site. But, I don't actually have to create a position for the Atheist - I can question and doubt and state misrepresentation. But it is up to them do do what they like.<br /><br />As I am quite secure in what I believe, and I am happy that belief covers a broader spectrum that even the widest thinking artheist I have encounter thus far. I am happy.Robert N Stephensonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24761391.post-3662790538056792092010-06-30T12:39:14.225+10:002010-06-30T12:39:14.225+10:00Havok - A Christian is the follower of the teachin...Havok - A Christian is the follower of the teachings of Jesus Christ -, it says so in the title.<br /><br />Though much of the early work was done by Paul - a Roman.<br /><br />For my part I simply ignore the Atheist version of Christianity - well I do tend to ignore Atheistic views in general. They are usually discussions between like mined people who make grand propositions, claims and stances while at the same time not actually doing anything.<br /><br />I have learned over many years, and from the fact I was once an atheist, that there is no logical or even rational point in explaining my faith to an Atheist.<br /><br />Wowbagger wants humility explained. You do realize that is like asking me to explain wisedom to someone who will never be wise.<br /><br />Do I show humility? Sometimes but not always, though I do try to be more often than not. But like all humans, I am far from perfect and failures are inevitable.<br /><br />Many Christian adopt the traditional God image, not simply because that is what they hold fast to but more because the representation is easier to visualize than unkowable concept they may believe. Only the fool says they know God, the bigger fool say they know God's mind.Robert N Stephensonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24761391.post-65661133464860366892010-06-30T12:35:57.505+10:002010-06-30T12:35:57.505+10:00Robert N Stephenson wrote: 'Why would I make l...Robert N Stephenson wrote: '<i>Why would I make life easy for you anyway. I don't see any great life rules that say that.</i>'<br /><br />Because you keep insisting we're mischaracterising Christians, that's why. If you genuinely wanted a discussion on the topic you'd be forthcoming on your position and be prepared to elaborate on and justify it.<br /><br />That you won't - or can't - paints you in a very poor light indeed.Wowbaggernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24761391.post-66218016801412345752010-06-30T12:23:09.557+10:002010-06-30T12:23:09.557+10:00I don't know Wowbagger, I quite enjoy the smug...I don't know Wowbagger, I quite enjoy the smug superiority he seems full of, not to mention the accusation of a lack of humility on your part.<br /><br />Robert, God tends to refer to the god of classical theism OR to what the Christian/Muslim/Jew on the street believes of their deity.<br />Your use of it probably needs to be qualified. You said <i>"I think Stephen Hawking came close when he did his work with the big bang."</i> It's my understanding that Hawking's "God" is similar to Spinoza's God, which as I understand it comes under "pantheism". If that's the case, I don't understand how you claim to be a Christian and then have this concept of deity which doesn't mesh - I find it confusing to say the least.Havokhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05770427187548083625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24761391.post-10148971482360299582010-06-30T12:21:16.669+10:002010-06-30T12:21:16.669+10:00Wowbagger and of course Havok - in all you chatter...Wowbagger and of course Havok - in all you chatter, which is minor you haven't even been able to see answers. They are there but you have to want to find them.<br /><br />Why would I make life easy for you anyway. I don't see any great life rules that say that.<br /><br />Humility Wowbagger is something you don't even get. How deep is your hole now, boy.Robert N Stephensonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24761391.post-79186004853251091332010-06-30T12:17:45.761+10:002010-06-30T12:17:45.761+10:00Got this today, well several minutes ago:
We agre...Got this today, well several minutes ago:<br /><br />We agree, we stand on opposite sides of the divide. I have nothing to prove and the other side nothing to disprove.<br /><br />These questions arise:<br /><br />How much of the world's knowledge can you literally hold in your head. How much of all the combined research, p speculation and discovery can you physically take ownership of in your mind?<br /><br />How much knowledge when compared to the entirety of the universe and the spaces either beyond or between, can you truly call definite - for lack of a better word, could you call, truth?<br /><br />How much of the future knowledge can you say you already know and predict will know when compared the the speculated depth of the future?<br /><br />How much of the past can you say you know, without a doubt, happened the exact way you think it did? How much of many thousands of years of history can you bring forward to offer without question as to its accuracy?<br /><br />How much do you really know, without hesitation or doubt, about yourself and what you will do not only now, or in the next few seconds, but in the years remaining to you.<br /><br />There are answers to these questions and they will vary greatly between individuals. What those answers mean to you is another things entirelyRobert N Stephensonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24761391.post-77185630785830435722010-06-30T12:10:48.301+10:002010-06-30T12:10:48.301+10:00Havok, there's a great expression for what you...Havok, there's a great expression for what you and I are doing with Robert's idea of faith - 'trying to nail jello to a wall'. <br /><br />He's deliberately avoiding definitions or descriptions - see how he brushed aside my request for his definition of humility - so that he can keep us from pointing out the logical flaws and/or demonstrable invalidity of his claims.<br /><br />He says we should learn about 'his' kind of Christian before we criticise him, but then tries to change the subject the very instant he's asked to quantify what that he means by Christian.<br /><br />It's more than a little disingenuous - and that's putting it politely.<br /><br />So I don't know if there's much chance asking him too many more questions - all we'll get in return is more content-free handwaving, evasive tapdancing and waffling non-sequiturs.Wowbaggernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24761391.post-14974649045360065162010-06-30T12:08:03.627+10:002010-06-30T12:08:03.627+10:00Havok -
I have not been coy, just don't see t...Havok -<br /><br />I have not been coy, just don't see the need to explain my faith in a blog of atheists. There isn't much point it that; it will change nothing, do nothing.<br /><br />To date you have mentioned a couple of Christian cliches - perhaps you are being too literal in the view of Christianity.<br /><br />If you don't know why Christians are called Christians then I will not be the one to explain it. I am sure there are plenty to give the answer as applicable to their beliefs.<br /><br />True, you may be in the 'don't know' category and I don't write you off, it is just to know you will need to search - anything I say is biased in what I believe and may not in anyway be helpful in what you are looking for, or already know. You mentioned the bible - even this book, with its history, can be taken is so many ways that my taking of it may not come close to your view of the book.<br /><br />While the Artheist has no compunction in telling you what to believe, or perhaps what to trust, I can be hesitant as it isn't my place to tell you this. You want to know, then you go find out.<br /><br />What God is is questionable across belief systems. It is not consistent and nor is it always reliable. So for the Atheist to state 'God is this' it is incorrect and even the idle research would show great difference no only in opinion, but in religious undertakings.<br /><br />Now my definition, or lack of definition is indeed my own (yet I am not alone in the idea) but essentially it is my own. As I said, for many of the anti-arguments to actually work, God must be tightly defined as either/or<br /><br />This approach is identical to fundamentalism - a literalization of things to suit your purpose. The very thing Atheist tend to say Christians do. If you are an atheist why would you take the bible or religion literally yourself? If only to further your own argument to your pre-set conclusion.<br /><br />If you are searching, then good luckRobert N Stephensonnoreply@blogger.com